3 Things My OBM Knows That My Coach Doesn’t with Nivek Harrison

I sat down in Melbourne with my longtime Online Business Manager and co-coach, Nivek Harrison, for an intimate, behind-the-scenes conversation that feels more like a candid dinner chat than a formal interview. Together, we revealed what really goes on inside my mastermind-first coaching business - from hilarious calendar overshares to the power of boundaries, trust, and direct communication.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I am so excited for today for so many reasons. So we're recording right now in Melbourne. Set the scene. I'm here with Niv, my incredible longtime OBM. If you're a longtime listener to the show, you're gonna know that. If you're a new listener to the show, then welcome. This is Devon Harrison, my longtime OBM and co-coach inside Swift Ventures. So I feel like we need to do a scene set first of all for this episode. So we're recording in Melbourne. I've just been over here doing a keynote yesterday at the Beautiful You Coaching Academy Inspiration Day. And we were like, let's maximize this time. Because when we look back at the podcast, the episodes that people love the most are the episodes between you and I. How does that make you feel? I love it.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

I love it. It's so nice to hear. And I think it's like so much of it is because it's just, it's us. It feels like a chat. It feels like us talking at dinner last night, just with a microphone in front of us.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

With a microphone without a margarita and a glass of red.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Different vibe.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Slightly different vibe. Yeah, it's so true. I and I do think that it's because something that our clients often repeat back to us, which, you know, I love so much and we really try and do, is that we try so much to create the behind the scenes environment and share behind the scenes. Because obviously, you know, my entire business model, our entire business model is that we're creating something where it's the type of business that our clients are creating similar businesses inside their own niches. And so it feels really important to me that we're always doing that. And I think these podcasts are such a great opportunity for us to bring people in even more. And in this particular episode, it's it's almost a little bit of a like, if we were gonna do anything that was a little more reality TV-esque, this would be the type of vibe because we want to bring you in on the type of things that you know. We've I think we've titled this like what my OBM knows about me that my coach doesn't. Now, at this point in my business, when I'm recording this, I'm no longer working with my longtime coach right now. I've got a newer coach, and so it's a newer relationship. There's things she doesn't know about me. But the more important thing is that you know like almost everything about me.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Almost everything.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

We have no secrets. It's true.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

It's true. And actually, before we go into it, you like you knew my daughter's gender before I did. Do you want to tell that story?

SPEAKER_00 2:25

It was so special. Like it was like such a delight to have you be like, hey, can you coordinate the gender reveal? Because I trust you and I want you to know and getting to know that first before anyone. Like, that's that's such an honor. It was such a joy to be a part of that in that way, especially with you being on the other side of the country. Like it wasn't something I could physically attend. So still getting to be a part of it, like that's just so special.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, it it felt so good for me to be like, hey, can I get you to help me with this? Because when Che, it was actually Che who suggested it. I don't know if I ever told you that.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Um I loved it. But we knew that we were gonna do a gender reveal, and I was like, immediate family's gonna be there for it. I can't ask any of them. Yeah. Um, and Chay was just like, obviously, it's Niv, like Niv's gonna coordinate it. Needs to be someone who's reliable, trustworthy, who you know is gonna guard this information, make sure it is the right gender. Like, tick all of those boxes.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

The p the number of times I checked when I was emailing of like this, no, this is definitely the right gender. Like, we cannot stuff this up.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

So good. Um, so that just highlights, I guess, the level of intimacy in our relationship. Okay, let's let's talk then about like the three things you know, and we're gonna give some colour and context and obviously make this super useful for you and your business as well. So, the first thing that you know about me, you know when I'm really tired. I know when you're really tired. Yeah. So can you speak to, because we've prepped this a bit, but I don't fully know what you're gonna say, and I think that's part of the fun. Like, how do you know when I'm really tired? Like, let's just roll a little bit around that, how I show up, anything that's useful.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

I think there's two versions of you when you're really tired. One is the the version of you who knows she's really tired and you're very upfront about it, and you're very upfront about most things that have a potential to impact me and my role in the business. And you'll be like, Niv, I'm exhausted, had a really bad night, it was sunny last night, or something's happened. I'm just really tired. Here's the context of what needs to be done and what we're prioritizing today. There's that version of you, and then there's the version of you who is tired and maybe hasn't necessarily clocked it yet, but is like, take no prisoners tired. You are just like to the point. Oh my gosh, that's so fun. Never in a bad way, right? Like, never in an aggressive way. But just like, I don't have time for anything else. We are just like to the point. This is what needs to happen, this is what I need. These are the things that I need to move forward from you. This is what I expect from you today. Like, so funny. It's virtually just like very direct.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Um I feel like that's when there's also a lot of typos. Is that how you know? Is that the way?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Sometimes typos, or sometimes like all voice, no typing. That's so funny. Like Ellie doesn't have capacity for typing today. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

That's how you know. Sometimes so that's really interesting. Can okay, so like just honest for the room. Like, tell can you break down, because we know people listening to this are bosses inside their business. So I reckon people are like, what does Niv love about that? What does Niv hate about it? What would Niv prefer?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

I love this.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

You know, like, can you tell me what is good about that? And obviously, like this is for our peeps, so it's not for us. Like, be honest, you know, I've I'm fine with that. Oh, this whole episode is honesty. So, yeah, what do you like about that? What don't you like? What can I improve there? Tell us more because we are all gonna be tired at times, and that is okay. And I will say as well, that is something that I love so much about you is that you never make me wrong for the state that I'm in. Yeah. Um, and also I know that I have a responsibility still, and my responsibility is recognizing like where I'm at and not making it your problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Um, even if I am showing up in a slightly different way. So yeah, I would love to hear that from you.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Love that because I think that responsibility piece is so important. And that's where like you are nine times out of 10, 99 times out of a hundred, so proactive in hey, this is what's going on. I am tired, this is what I'm prioritizing, this is where we're going. Yeah. And that proactiveness is the thing that makes my role easier because I'm like, okay, great. Well, I can rejig what needs to be done. I can have, you know, some decision over like, okay, well, what can we reprioritize? What can be shifted? How can I take a load off your plate? Because that at the end of the day, so much of my role is how do I make your job easier in the business? And so knowing where you're at is a big part of being able to do that. So whether that's I'm tired, I'm unwell, I'm just really busy, I'm out of the office, I'm traveling, I'm catching up with girlfriends, like all of that context helps me do my job better. Yes. And then for the times where maybe I've clocked it before you have, it's fine. It's obviously never an issue. And there's almost always a point where you'll come back, you know, maybe later in the day with like, I'm so sorry, I'm really tired. And it's never a problem because it's you're never making it, like you said, you're never making it an issue for me. Yes. You're never making it everybody else's problem. That you're making it. It would be a problem.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

It would be a problem if I did. Right. And some people do. And I think like that's that's really conscious for me is not making it your problem because I know that that's not acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Correct. Like if it's it might get to, you know, later in the day and you might send a message with like, sorry, I've been really blunt today. I'm just tired. It's been a long line. Sorry, I feel like I've been really direct. This is what I'm looking for. Like there's never an expectation shift because of the way you're feeling. Yeah. Which I think is really important in this sort of relationship. Like the expectations are always the same. Yes. The emotional side is separate to that.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yes. And that's another thing that you do so well, is you don't and this is so wild what I'm about to say because we're talking about this in such a personal context, but you don't make our communications personal.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Ever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Can you like are you doing that consciously? Oh, this is a really good question. I don't know if it's something I do consciously, but across the board, I do certainly have a like work is work mentality. Yes. And so I can almost go, okay, well, work is work, and therefore, let's say it's you, and let's say you were having a bad day and you were maybe more emotional than usual in any way. I'm not taking that on board as something about me or the way that I'm working. It would be the rarest of rare occasions that I'm like, oh my God, does she hate me? Yes. Like, have I completely stuffed everything up? Like, why is she not responding or why is she responding in a certain way? This is really unusual. Like, it's just I'm able to separate the work and our personal relationship and anything around that. And often, like, we'll be having simultaneously both personal combos and work combos in Slack. And I think we're both very good at almost that context switching of like, this is a personal conversation. This is what's happening in either of our lives. And now we need to switch gears and talk work.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

It's so true because if you weren't able to context switch with me, then I would almost be like less in the personal, more in the business, because I would feel like I would need to rally us back. But you're right there with me in that energy of like, this is what's important, this is what we're doing, this is what we're focusing on. So I do think it's so easy for us to be fluid because of that. I just really love as well that you know, you're like what I hear when you speak to that is that there's an expectation for you that your client is always gonna speak directly. Yeah. Like if there's a problem, they're gonna tell you. And so you're not gonna assume something. And I think that for us as women, we have been taught and conditioned to communicate in ways that are not always direct because there's an assumption that direct communication is hypermasculine. Yes. And that's really challenging in business because if you assume that it's hypermasculine and you refuse to communicate in a really direct way, you're not gonna have a good team culture.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

I totally agree. And I'm somebody who defaults to very direct communication. And I almost have to like consciously be like, okay, yes, and I did need to soften it a little bit in this context. But where there's, you know, if there's something that needs to be said, if there's a problem, if a deadline's been missed, if something's happening. So at the moment, for example, we're talking a lot about our process around this podcast and the YouTube channel because it is so new.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

The conversation isn't it's all wrong, it's too hard, what's not working, you're at fault. The conversation is how can we make this easier for everyone?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yes, definitely. And in moments, you know, that I've been pissed off about the process, I've made it really clear, hey, like fam, I'm not pissed off at anyone's role in this process. I'm pissed off that the process isn't working and it's clunky and I want to fix it quickly. Yeah. And I'm just like, I want this to be fast. And that's my in a lot of ways, it's a good thing because that is the entrepreneurial gift of being like, let's move, let's make this better. Um, and also um, I want to make it very clear that this is like, I'm not saying that team are doing this wrong. Because if anyone thinks for a second that they're having to like climb back up to neutral, they're instantly going to be checked out of the project, they're not gonna be as interested. You know, it's more like a hey, can we collectively agree this sucks? Correct. Like we're in this together, that the process is not it yet. Let's all make it better. How do we do that? There's instantly more of that like collaborative, connective, camaraderie around it. So yeah, I just love that example. Okay, let's move to the second one before we just roll into like side rifts forever, which is like we could absolutely do it. We're gonna need to stay on track today. I'm watching you. Um it's totally me. Um, okay, so the second thing that you know, all right, so this is absolutely ridiculous. This is like my favorite story. All right, so actually, do you want to tell it? Because I so a couple of years back, a few years back, when we were going through ovulation induction. So this is before, like when we were trying to conceive Sunny, we were pre-IVF, so we were still, you know, trying to conceive Sunny naturally. What did you find in my calendar?

SPEAKER_00 12:42

I literally saw when you had sex scheduled with Shane. Amazing. Like, and it was at the time it was just like clocked it, cool, no worries. And now it's such a fun anecdote of like, and I don't want this to come across as like we have no boundaries with each other because that's not the reality of it. But like for me to support you, I have full access to your calendar. Like I know what's going on. And I think especially in that season, and certainly as you progressed through the IVF journey, it became even more important that I knew what was going on because there was always that minute's approach. It's a lot, and there was so much external to the business that naturally had an impact to the time you were in the business, your availability in the business, all of those things. So I remember seeing it. I remember I don't even think I said anything at the time because I was like, it's such a non-issue, and I never want to make it awkward in any way, shape, or form. It's more just like a giggle. Correct. But at some point it did come up in conversation and I was like, yeah, I know I've already seen your calendar.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

And I was like, oh my God. I just, so it it, this is the level to which you're in my life. Like, I just hadn't even thought about the fact that of course you could see it.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Do I need to keep this private? Like, it's just in my calendar. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

I just hadn't even thought about it. And obviously I burst out laughing. Like, I just thought it was the funniest thing. And of course, again, if you're listening to this and you're like, I'm so private, I wouldn't want my team to know those things. Like, couldn't can you create separate calendars? Like, sure, you can do something. Like, that sounds like a lot of work, to be honest. I think the the message I think in this that I would want to communicate is are you open and comfortable with your online business manager and like generally with your team? And if not, like I mean, actually, here's a question for you. Do you find that because there's so much openness in our relationship, it's just easier to navigate?

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, it is because at the end of the day, like there's things that I don't need to ask because I already know or I have access to information. And so there's additional context that's there. And like for added context, this is the same with all of my clients. Like if we're talking calendars specifically, I have access to all of my clients' calendars. Yes. One, because there's a part of the role that is scheduling and diary management, but two, because it's just helpful to know what's going on without you needing to come in every day and be like, hey, this is what's on my agenda for today. And I have these appointments, and I'm gonna be offline at this time and I'm gonna be online on Thursday at 3 p.m. this week. Like we just don't need to have those conversations because it's there. Totally. And we don't want to feel like we're showing up to a boss.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Like that's the whole reason that we well, one of the main reasons we don't work in corporate. Like we want that fleck, it's like the more information you share, the more that you can just be free and feel that full feeling of freedom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

And so, like, it's it's it's such a funny story now to be like, I knew and I saw when you guys were having sex, and like fantastic. What a weird little thing to know about. You play it, get it, girl. So funny. But like it's a level of trust that I do think when you're working with someone like an OBM, somebody who is almost, you know, one half step below being a business partner in your business. Absolutely. You have to have this level of trust. Yeah. Because otherwise, like, what are we doing? If you don't trust me with these things, how are you trusting me to make decisions about clients, about financial things in the business, about where we're going? Like that's that's the relationship. Yes. I so agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

And I think that that's another key piece, I guess, for everyone listening is does your team feel like you trust them? Because if they think that you don't, how's that impacting your relationship? But have you ever felt that before? Where you're where you've wondered, you know, I know obviously your client roster, you are obsessed with every single one of your clients. Um, and I know that, you know, personally, because why you don't ever tell me anything about them, you're just a vault, and I love that about you. I know you tell me how obsessed you are with them. But you know, have you had that in the past? Have you had experiences where you're like, I don't feel like I'm let in and therefore I can't do a good job.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Absolutely. And like in in some cases, that's been conversations that I've been able to have with clients and we've been able to move through.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

If I think back, you know, earlier in my business journey, there were people who that was just such a line for them that they didn't want somebody with that depth of knowledge, access, information in the business. And that became a line for me of like, well, I can't help you in the ways that I need to if I don't have this information. Now that doesn't mean you have to share your calendar, but it does mean we need to find a way to find that common ground to find the ways that we're sharing the things that we need to know. So I'm not sitting here going, let me help. Like, let me help.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yes, definitely. You can only assist to the level that you're actually able to get access to the information. Exactly. I love that. Okay, let's talk about the third one. You know when I'm pissed off. You know, like what triggers me. Yeah. And so for context, this was a question that I asked you last night. I was like, what do you think pisses me off? And you had an answer. Tell us more.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I think you get really pissed off when you see people who have a sense of entitlement. And this is in so many different contexts. Like, we will have conversations of like, oh my God, I just saw this post on Instagram. Have you seen it yet? Can we talk about it? You and I also think like there's there's that side of it. And then there's also a side of it where you get really frustrated when people almost project that entitlement onto you of like, you must do it so easy. It must be so easy for you because of X, Y, and Z. When the reality is we work really hard to be where we are, to have gotten to where we are now and to go where we're going. And so that's like a consistent theme. And I say this, like, you're not a pissed-off person, you're not an angry person coming into our Slack chats being like, I hate the world. No, it's rare. It's so rare that you're like, something has just tipped me today. Like I saw something, I've read something, and it's just like it's sticking with me. Can we talk about it? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Yeah, I would say nine times out of ten, I'm very neutral. And I also will say that, you know, that is that is effective leadership. Like I'm always thinking about how the way I show up sets the tone inside this business.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Um you imagine if you came in like frustrated every day at something you'd seen external to the business, how different like the tone of everyone in our team would be if that was the standard.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Literally, yeah. I mean, I think about that all the time. I'm always, you know, on a Monday or on any given day, I'm like, what is the vibe of this week? What is the the energy? Because everything is energy, right? Like, what is the energy that I want to create inside this business? And it's so great because if you show up in that consistent energy enough, it becomes the baseline hum of the business itself.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

It's the culture, it's exactly completely the culture of the business. And the culture of the business is that there are no problems, like everything is an emergency, everything is very figure outable, like we will find a solution, nothing is urgent. Like that's across the team and across, you know, multiple people who've been in our team now over the seven years you and I have been together. Like, that's the consistent feedback we get from team members as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I love that you brought that up because I was gonna mention that too. Like, I I'm really grateful and proud of that. That that is the consistent message and theme that we get fed back to us when people come in, they're like, Can I just say that, you know, the vibe in here is so great, like your systems are so great, you know, I I'm so clear. Like, and and we've had team members come in who they're almost afraid to do things wrong, or there's a real, it's like they've been so burned inside other businesses. And we're like, hey, like you're good. You're good here. Even the other day, one of our team members made a joke about she was like, Oh my gosh, this happened and I nearly had a heart attack. And I was like, Please don't girl, like that is not worth having a heart attack over. And she was like, No, no, I just was joking, but it was I think a fun reminder for her that like because I said something like not that serious, like it's okay, you know. Like we've both worked in, we've both worked in corporate where work has been treated like it's the emergency room, and we really rebel against that, right? Like you in events mostly, I've done a bit in events, but more just in that corporate, like crisis comms culture. And it's like, come on, you know, it's it's literally not urgent, it's not the energy. It's not that important. Like we're not in a surgery room, it yeah, you know, and other people's like anxious energy is not our problem. Like we know exactly what we're responsible for, and you know, we are very, very responsive. We are very good at showing up for our clients. And I think part of the reason we're able to do that and not have any issues around burnout is because we don't, we're not like dysregulated, like we're very regulated inside the business. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

And I think again, like so much of that is the communication style is the fact that there's not any sort of weird, funky energy in our team communications at any point in time, because that's where so much of that dysregulation. Comes from. Like, yes, there's a practical work component, work load component to it. And there's also that communication of like, does it feel urgent? Does it feel messy? Does it feel rude? Like, all of that can be so dysregulating as a team member. And so I think it's one of the things we do so well is that it's just everything is very joyful, everything is very calming, everything is just not a problem. It's it's a thought, it's a consideration, it's something to work on together. And that makes a difference in how everyone's able to show up. It really does.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

And just to speak to the entitlement piece that you spoke to before, because people might be like, oh, tell us more there. Um it's true, like it just the entitlement and the projection. One of my things that I really dislike is if there's ever any assumption that, you know, I got lucky or it's just easier for me, or any of those things. Because you're right, like I'm I'm so conscious about how we run this business. I think about it, even on weeks where I might be working 15 or 20 hours that week, I am thinking about the business constantly. I am caring about excellence and how we show up really well. Everything is about being better, being at the forefront, being dynamic, you know, like that is that is like living, breathing everything for me. And that comes through in the business. And so I think when I hear, you know, people say things or show up in ways where it's like, oh, I just don't want to do that, or there's no real commitment and effort, it's like this is just what's required, and I can't, you know, carry that for you. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So it is that, you know, knowing that that CEO role is such a big one and astride, that founder role, um, and ensuring that other people feel that as well. And that's the thing. Sometimes it's like, how do like how do you communicate this fully, you know?

SPEAKER_00 23:56

There is this, there's almost this weird juxtaposition of like, yes, life gets to be really good, and yes, I work less and I work the hours that I want, and I've built a business that serves the season of life that I'm in. And also to do that required and still requires work and support and investment and discomfort and a lot of challenges and some shitty days. Like that's just the reality of being in business.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

It's true, and people will just hear what they want to hear. Yeah. And so they'll go, Oh, I hear that it's all really good and you're making really great money and all of those things. And then they'll go, Oh no, but it's it's the whole, you know, there's so many trends at the moment um with reels of like, but are you willing to do X, Y, and Z? Um, you said something last night that I thought was so true, where it's like, yeah, the online space has really screwed a lot of people over by just making the assumption that it's just so, so easy to shop and sell and you'll make a million dollars. Totally. And it's really hard because there are times when I'm like, I never knew this could be my life, and I feel all of that, and all of that is my truth. And also, it doesn't mean you have to caveat, like, I'm not gonna put out a post and it's like, can't believe this is my life, and it's like my beautiful house and my baby and my incredible team and my clients always. Caveat 10 years, hours work, late nights.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Like that's just not social media. And I think that's one of the things that people love about this show as well, is that this is the space where we get to dive a little bit deeper into the realities of running a business that maybe we don't see on social as often, but also you're really transparent on social, like you're really clear about like, and especially with our clients as well. Like, we're really clear about this is what it takes. Yes, yes, it's true, it's important.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yeah. I love this episode. Anything that we've missed that you want to add to it before we wrap up? I don't think so. This was fun. So good. It was fun. So good. This is like a series of recording of you today that we're gonna roll out over the next couple of months. So I'm not sure which which part this will be released in, but stay tuned for more episodes. Thank you for being in the chair with in the chair with me. We'll sit next to each other next time. Yeah.